Marty Lurie Talks San Francisco Giants Baseball

Winter Moves Under Way

It’s not going to be that easy to trade Tim Hudson even though the A’s will try their hardest to move the heart and soul of their pitching staff.

You see any team that trades for Hudson and meets the A’s price, which by the way should rival what Arizona is asking for Randy Johnson and not a marquee player less, has got to sign Hudson long term or else lose him after one season.

The market is still not clearly defined for a pitcher of Hudson’s caliber. Is Pedro’s 13 mil the standard? If Carl Pavano gets 11 million what’s Hudson worth?

So, a new team needs days to negotiate with Hudson before pulling the trigger. These deals don’t happen over night. I don’t expect the A’s to move Hudson at the winter meetings because the logistics of such a move will take more than 48 hours.

What can the A’s expect?

Click below for more!If the Orioles are involved, and you know Carl Pavano isn’t going to Baltimore, but will land in Boston or New York, then they should ask for Melvin Mora and BJ Ryan.

If it’s the Reds, Austin Kearns and a pitcher or Adam Dunn. Forget Dan Haren or Rick Ankiel of the Cards, they aren’t worth it.

Marcus Giles has the on base percentage, youth, and an OK glove. Atlanta has a farm system with some players coming up. Thing is Braves don’t want to spend any dough. Will they be willing to take Hudson without a long term deal?

I think the whole thing is complicated and unless someone panics, Hudson won’t go until next month.

Jermaine Dye in Chicago. He’ll be fine because he will have some hitters around him. White Sox will see plenty of righties again with Frank Thomas, Paul Konerko, Aaron Rowand, and Carlos Lee, all righties as the power group.

They should keep Jose Valentin because he can hit righties, problem is he can’t find a position that doesn’t require a glove.

Jeff Kent a Dodger. Forget him at second base, his range is miniscule. He’ll be the first baseman, Hee Seop Choi is a waste of time and won’t see much action. Dodgers still need pitching. Could they do something for Hudson? Probably not because they still have the fantasy that they will keep Adrian Beltre. Maybe if Beltre leaves, LA will sink some money into the pitching and then the phone will ring in Oakland.

Steve Finley in Anaheim. Guess that means no Carlos Beltran for the Angels. Cubs still want Beltran, but I think it’s between the Astros and Yankees.

Beltre could get a serious offer form the Orioles who are just itching to spend big money.

Angels will now have Dallas Mc Pherson at third, Vlad in right, Garret Anderson in left, Finley in center, and Erstad at first.

Shortstop? Not David Eckstein, I think they will make a real effort to sign Edgar Renteria who now will not be a Cub with Nomar back in Chicago.

Jon Leiber, Cory Lidle, Brett Myers, Vincente Padilla, and Randy Wolf. That folks is your 2005 Phillies rotation. If they do anything in the NL East it will be because of the bull pen with Tim Worrell, Rheal Cormier, and Billy Wagner.

Giants are crying because Steve Finley didn’t tell them personally he didn’t want to play in SF. Allright get over that, lets look at the alternatives. They need a centerfielder, Dave Roberts, who Bruce Grimes first suggested, as a possibility would be anice fit. If not then Moises Alou or Richard Hidalgo can try to play right and have Marquis Grissom stay in center. Not a pleasant thought.

Jacques Jones of Minnesota should land somewhere.

Cory Koskie may be a Mariner or perhaps an Angel which would take the pressure off McPherson. He wants to stay in Minnesota, but Twins are fooling around with pocket change on their offer to him.

How about straight up swap Pedro Feliz for Austin Kearns of Reds? Not crazy because Kearns is always hurt, so his value might be down.

Texas isn’t getting any serious offers for Alfonso Soriano, they should call the Mets who are desperate to do something stupid.

Troy Glaus in Arizona? If he is healthy it is a great pick up, big dice roll though if he can’t throw. Russ Ortiz is supposed to be next to sign in Arizona. He should consider Anaheim, he’d be a good fit there.

Richie Sexson in Seattle? I think that’s the best place for him.

Carlos Delgado will be a Yankee, you heard it here.

The owners who cry poor mouth all the time are spending money at a fast clip. It’s good for business and suggests we haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until the big boys sign, it will be a sight to see.


1 Anonymous { 12.10.04 at 11:34 am }


I’m guessing that many clubs will be overspending this winter, and may be more restrained next year. Pedro Martinez looks like he’ll be the highest paid free agent starter this year at $13 million/yr. So Hudson — who is not a free agent — might not expect to get more than $14 million/yr tops as a free agent next year. If he is willing to sign an extension with the A’s for less, that would likely be $11-12 million/yr. the A’s could probably do that if they decide that Hudson is one of the (maximum 2) Big 3 that they will sign to multiyear extensions.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Beane has deliberately hyped up the media and the other GM’s over a possible Hudson trade. I think he will get them all trying to outbid each other. I don’t see him trading Huddy unless someone offers him a stupidly monster deal that offers a proven starter plus a big bat plus addresses another team need.

Or another thing he might do is pull a ‘bait and switch’: after nobody offers quite enough for Huddy, he could say “well that offer isn’t quite good enough for Huddy, but I might take it for Mulder or Zito (whichever one the A’s might ultimately decide not to sign). If the other team bites, then they have overpaid and the A’s add another starter without losing their ace.

I don’t think Beane would trade Huddy for prospects. what for? If Huddy plays out his contract the A’s will get prospects for him anyway.

The bottom line is that Beane doesn’t NEED to trade Huddy, so he can afford to wait — and perhaps do something else. Most of all, I look for him to surprise us!

Oakland Si

2 Anonymous { 12.10.04 at 12:06 pm }

oakland si,
seems like you’re doing a lot of wishful thinking. this A’s team is cheap and you can bet that Schott didn’t like Hudson setting a deadline and is putting pressure on beane to trade him. the A’s are going to be one weak team next year without Hudson. they have never hit the ball and that has cost them year after year. this won’t change next season and will hurt more cause the SP will be worse.
-Mike E.

3 Anonymous { 12.10.04 at 2:34 pm }

Mike E.,

the A’s payroll will be a reported $65 million in 2005. that is far from the cheapest. In fact, their payroll has risen considerably every year for the past 5 years.

that said, I certainly don’t expect them to become free spenders. I don’t believe Huddy’s deadline put any pressure on Beane. chavvy did the same last year (though he did it later).

Any team that makes it into the playoffs 3 years in a row, and then, in their weakest, injury-ridden season, just miss by one game, is a pretty good team in my opinion. I believe Beane when he says he plans for the a’s to contend in 2005. The only chance they have to do that, in my opinion, is by not weakening their greatest resource: their starting pitching. that’s why only a monster deal will pry Huddy loose this winter.

Wishful thinking would be insisting that the A’s will sign all of the Big 3 — which I have never said.

4 Anonymous { 12.10.04 at 2:57 pm }

i’m aware of the A’s payroll and it’s good that it has increased in past years. however, that increase has been very incremental and needs to be looked at in relation to what other contending teams are spending. obviously, spending a lot of money doesn’t insure you playoff contention, let alone a WS title. it does help when there is already a solid nucleus in place, though, and the A’s have had that the last few years mainly due to their starting pitching. there were always major weaknesses that hurt them in the playoffs (bullpen and offense) that existed in big part cause of their refusal to spend more money. that and because they let crucial elements of their success go is why they should be called “cheap.” A’s would have made the playoffs this year with Tejada.

as far as a “monster deal” happening. there’s just nothing in the reports that indicate that. Beane seems intent on acquiring Giles, someone who should bat 2nd but will be batting 6th in the A’s weak lineup.

5 Anonymous { 12.10.04 at 7:07 pm }

from what I’ve read so far the Braves seem reluctant to part with Giles, and are probably out of the running for Hudson.

I have a feeling Beane will surprise us all.

6 Anonymous { 12.11.04 at 1:01 pm }

Apparently the Whitesox have offered Carlos Lee for Hudson. That’d be the only trade worth doing, IMO. The A’s aren’t interested, apparently, cause he is due to make 8mil next season. Well, that’s only 2 million more than Hudson! Cheap, I tell ya! I bet the A’s wouldn’t do it even if the Whitesox gave them two mil to offset the numbers, so committed to their cries of “poverty” they are.
-Mike E.

7 Anonymous { 12.12.04 at 4:48 am }

Excuse me for using your forum to vent, but I’m done. A’s, apparently, just traded Hudson to the Dodgers for prospects. I, consequently, will no longer root for them as a team. What a joke. City of Oakland needs to take over the team.
-Mike E.

8 Anonymous { 12.12.04 at 6:58 am }

I’ve been an A’s fan since 1980. that means I’ve gone through the lean as well as the fat years. I appreciate being able to root for a team that has made the playoffs (and come within one game) every year for the last five years (and they surprised everyone in 1999 by coming in 2nd.) Believe me, it’s alot nicer being a fan in September when you have a chance than when you’re long out of it.

I have my doubts about letting Hudson go, since the prospect of 2 rookies in the rotation may hurt the a’s chances. but I believe Beane is seriousl that he wants to contend every year, including 2005.

And if they don’t? of course, I’ll still root for my A’s. I would be much more frustrated as a fan if my team continually threw money into bad deals — as so many other teams do.

9 marty { 12.12.04 at 12:12 pm }

If Hudson does go to LA for a couple of minor leaguers I won’t be surprised. Without giving the new team a window to sign Hudson, his market will be prospects because who will part with big time players for a one year rental.
I’d rather see some big time hitter for Hudson because the A’s really faltered at the dish the last two weeks of the year.
Edwin Jackson has loads of potential he just had a miserable year last season. I don’t know enough about Perez, anyone know what sort of a player he is?
I don’t see the rush to trade Hudson, maybe the A’s see some urgency. The Orioles could probably be squeezed for major league players since they lost out on Pavano to NY.
Let’s see what today brings.

10 marty { 12.12.04 at 1:43 pm }

Just went out for a run to clear my head. Thought about the Hudson to LA deal. I don’t think the A’s settle for two minor leaguers for Hudson, the trade will continue by the A’s moving Jackson, you know how they feel about 21 year old pitchers who haven’t pitched in college, maybe to the Yankees who then can package Jackson and Perez, if necessary, for Johnson in Arizona, A’s could get Vasquez from NY or Brandon Webb from Arizona for the minor leaguers. How about to the White Sox for Carlos Lee, now the A’s have open money without Hudson’s contract, and Garland, then the Sox could trade Jackson to NY for Vasquez, and the Yankees can move Jackson to Arizona. Reds become players, send Jackson and Perez to Cincy for Danny Graves and Austin Kearns or Dunn. Reds wouldn’t have to worry about signing Hudson and would get two top minor league prospects.
So, if the LA deal goes down for Hudson I don’t think it stops there for Oakland. Jackson and Perez would be a travesty for Hudson and the A’s know it. The A’s would now have money to spend and they will.

11 Anonymous { 12.12.04 at 2:17 pm }

I agree, Marty, two prospects are nowhere near enough for Huddy, even for one year. And Huddy says in an interview published on the A’s site that the LA trade rumors are speculation, similar to what the Cards rumors were during the week.

Perez is a decent 25 year old second base prospect: some pop, but has been in 4 organizations over the past few years — don’t know if we should consider that a bad sign. Why would the A’s keep him unless they were giving up on Ellis?

As for having 2 rookies in the rotation — huh-uh, the A’s can’t seriously think they would contend that way, especially since the offense has not been upgraded enough to make up for the loss of Huddy.

12 marty { 12.13.04 at 6:32 pm }


What do you think of the White Sox-Brewers trade?

Carlos Lee was just traded to the Brewers for Scott Podsednik, Luiz Viscaino, and a player to be named later. I knew the Giants wouldn’t go after Lee, since he plays leftfield, and only adequately at that. And as to the A’s, they were not going to add $8.5 million to their payroll.

Here’s hoping the A’s go after Vernon Wells if Beane’s serious about dealing Tim Hudson, rather than complete the rumored Dodger deal. How could Beane seriously consider an (injured) rookie pitcher and AAA infielder for the man who has been the heart and sould of the A’s? They need to get a young yet proven bat with a lot of upside and Wells fits that description perfectly.

And, hope the Giants try to obtain a favorite of mine, Aaron Rowand, since the newly acquired Scott P. can play centerfield for the White Sox.


13 marty { 12.14.04 at 4:35 pm }


Just wondering:

Since none of Mr. Boras’ clients have signed, I wonder if he’ll encourage Magglio to be the first? Signing an incentive laden, one-year deal makes a lot sense for both Ordonez and Boras, who needs to show owners that he and his clients are flexible and realistic about the market.

Hope it happens, and that either the A’s or Giants are the beneficiaries.


14 marty { 12.14.04 at 4:36 pm }

I don’t get the feeling anyone will sign Ordonez until they see him workout, would you? Derek Lowe back to the Sox looks like a possibility.
Millwood-Texas? Drew-Det? Varitek-Boston? Beltre-Baltimore?
Who knows but Boras doesn’t panic.

15 marty { 12.14.04 at 4:37 pm }


Glad you wrote in Daily Dish that Hudson’s worth as much and probably more than Randy Johnson, at this stage in their respective careers.As to Mr. Boras, you’re so right. He doesn’t panic. But, hope that one of his clients does get fed up and gets the ball rolling by signing soon.

As to some of the players you listed, I certainly agree that Varitek looks like a lock to return to the Red Sox, especially in light of the pending Martinez move to the Mets. I do think Beltre in Baltimore would allow them to move Mora back to the outfield. But, I bet that Detroit makes a huge push, especially if they don’t get Renteria. Plus, Seattle might too, whether they sign Sexson (based on physical) or not. As to Lowe, I’d be surprised he goes back to Boston. Bet he either returns to his original organization (Mariners). They have a terrific pitchers’ park, as does the team near his hometown of Dearborn, the Tigers. Drew is a real puzzle. Loads of talent, but such a poor attitude and so far has been injury prone. Millwood? Read that the Braves have offered him just under $5 million for one year. My, has his stock fallen. But, under the tutelage of Mr. Mazone, he might regain his old form.


16 Anonymous { 12.16.04 at 11:20 am }

I don’t know how much Bud Selig had to do with the DC baseball mess, but if MLB winds up with serious “egg on its face” (as it appears today, anyway) then as commissioner, Selig would probably get a lot of the blame in the eyes of the public.

So between that, the All-Star flap, and the steroid mess, I’d say he’s done. No?


17 Anonymous { 12.16.04 at 5:46 pm }

The corrupt baseball commissioner and corrupt Washington politicians couldn’t come up with a deal? That makes the low income community in Washington the winners. hehe

News is reporting Hudson was traded to the Braves for prospects. Coupled with the acquisition of a backup infielder to start at 2nd, I would say the A’s are officially rebuilding this season.
-Mike E.

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